View Thread: DSM lovers: a question too difficult for some people to answer..


Jerseygirl
I have a friend who is looking at a Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T and a GS-X. They're both for sale in the same lot, and both about the same price. I say he goes for the GS-T, because it's much lighter than the AWD components of the GS-X, but the only downside is that it is front wheel drive.

What do you guys think? GS-T or GS-X?

k6kicker
gsx....the torque steer on even a lightly modded gs-t can get pretty nasty

Jerseygirl
gsx....the torque steer on even a lightly modded gs-t can get pretty nasty

That bad? I don't think he's going to mod it though, because he just wants a "cool" car. I'm afraid he might even rice the poor thing because he mentioned putting new rims on the car, and maybe a wing... he might have just been referring to a stock one, but still...

k6kicker
the gsx is worth more anyways.....and awd helps in the snow and rain, less wheelspin since you arent powering each wheel as much and i do belive they had a tigher suspension...id smack him if he took a gs-t over a gsx if i were you

k6kicker
http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/

not gsx vs gs-t related but still a good read

k6kicker
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7334


gsx vs gs-t debate.....also liek they said, check for crankwalk

Nogaro Nitwit
Most definitely the GSX. All wheel drive is a hell of a lot better than the front wheels drive. Of course I am biased since my current and previous cars were both 4wd. Coming from 3 previous front wheel drive cars, I love the 4wd cars. So much more fun to take into turns.

FabUlous
if he doesnt want to heavily mod it, and have it as a daily driver maybe a little more, the awd would probably help him as far as utility, but i would take either :D

Lotus
acctually i dont think torque steer is that bad on the FWD one. a guy at AF has a 300hp+ FWD dsm, and he says there isnt a problem with torque steer yet.

k6kicker
i've driven ones with just intake and exhyuast (1st gen) and 1st through 3rd were nothing but torque steer

FabUlous
as stated by www.edmunds.com
(didnt know what year, so i went with the newest....the 1999)

GS-T
Exterior
Length: 172.4 in. Width: 68.3 in.
Height: 49.8 in. Wheel Base: 98.8 in.
Ground Clearance: 5 in. Curb Weight: 2970 lbs.

Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 6.5 sec. Braking Distance: 122 ft.
Road Holding Index: .84 g Base Number of Cylinders: 4
Base Engine Size: 2 liters Base Engine Type: Inline 4
Horsepower: 210 hp Max Horsepower: 6000 rpm
Torque: 214 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 3000 rpm
Drive Type: FWD
EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 23 mpg / 31 mpg Automatic: : 20 mpg / 27 mpg

Dealer Retail:$11,162

GS-X
Exterior
Length: 172.4 in. Width: 68.3 in.
Height: 49.8 in. Wheel Base: 98.8 in.
Ground Clearance: 4.6 in. Curb Weight: 3270 lbs.

Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 6.7 sec. Braking Distance: 119 ft.
Road Holding Index: .85 g Base Number of Cylinders: 4
Base Engine Size: 2 liters Base Engine Type: Inline 4
Horsepower: 210 hp Max Horsepower: 6000 rpm
Torque: 214 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 3000 rpm
Drive Type: AWD

EPA Mileage Estimates: (City/Highway)
Manual: 21 mpg / 28 mpg Automatic: : 19 mpg / 25 mpg

Dealer Retail: $14,476

Lbs per HP
GS-T: 14.142 lbs
GS-X: 15.571 lbs

The GS-X only holds .01 more g's to the skidpad then does the GS-T. Not to mention that the GS-T makes it 0-60 0.2 seconds faster than its AWD counterpart. Even so, the GS-T is worth about 3k less than the GS-X. Looking at these numbers, if your friend wanted to take the car and tune it and make it nice and fast, i would recommend the GS-X. If hes looking for something more economical and isnt worried about some possible torque steer and maybe understeer, i would tell him to get the GS-T. Both these cars are pretty sweet though :rock:

I hope this helps Jerz..

sarge
ok, here is what i think, i own the 300hp or so fwd 95 gst, and i think that if you dont suck at driving then you will be able to handle torque-steer, it does do it, but say, its not any harder than driving my dads 930 turbo porsche with manual steering

anyways, the FWD eclipses actually handle better in the twisties than the awd variants, my advice on that is to go to an autocross and actually watch the fwd versions beat the awd versions

the GSX is gonna launch much better than the gst, but the gst is lighter and has less driveline loss so it will be catching the GSX mid 2nd gear or so, the GSX is also gonna break trannies, the GST will just spin with the possibility of breaking stuff if you get bad wheel hop, but that can be fixed with better motor mount bushings

i thought FWD was gay until i got my car, i always liked the eclipse turbo, and i did want a gsx, but what i found for a good deal was the
gst and i bought it, what i think now is that as long as the driver is competent, he shouldn't have any problem with a fwd car

mustangdriver
That's impressive that it doesn't have that much torque steer. My last couple FWD cars definitely did. One was a basic Civic LX and the other was an 01 Prelude. Both made you correct your steering a bit off the line under hard acceleration.

I like the GSX better personally but I know that a FWD car can be a hell of a handler. I did pretty well autocrossing the Prelude. The best is when you get into trouble heading through a corner, you just give it more gas and it pulls itself out of the turn. Pretty fun.

sarge
its so pretty :)

mustangdriver
Welcome to the forum sarge. Is that your car? That's pretty sweet looking!

sarge
Welcome to the forum sarge. Is that your car? That's pretty sweet looking!


yeah thats mine

Jerseygirl
yeah thats mine

Very smooth looking. Nice intercooler.

FabUlous
300hp...............did that come stock or did yo upgrade the turbo, i thought the 95's only came with 210 stock, not to mention 300 would create some significant torque steer problems i would think

SLP Addict
You can see more pics of his car on my site. www.geocities.com/tunerscorner/chris & His dads 930 at www.geocities.com/tunerscorner/ron

sarge
300hp...............did that come stock or did yo upgrade the turbo, i thought the 95's only came with 210 stock, not to mention 300 would create some significant torque steer problems i would think


right now i have a frank jr 17c turbo running on 20psi of boost
with 550cc injectors, a walbro 255lph fuel pump, apexi safc, front mount, 2.5inch IC pipes, and 2.75 inch full exhaust to support it

eclipse turbos from 95-99 came with 210hp, 250hp being about the max you could get out of the stock turbo

FabUlous
shiiit.....20psi is a whole lot of boost.........but kudos man thats one nice car :cheers:

Lotus
get the 30 psi turbos!!!!!!!!! another 100hp!!!!!!!

sarge
get the 30 psi turbos!!!!!!!!! another 100hp!!!!!!!


haha, the turbo i have coming to me will support 30psi, my motor in its current condition wont support 30psi though :)

sarge
shiiit.....20psi is a whole lot of boost.........but kudos man thats one nice car :cheers:


meh, nothing a stock dsm turbo motor with almost 118k miles cant take :)

k6kicker
95-96 are the worst eyars for crank walk...ill keep that babe you have there in my prayers...i've always ahd love for the dsm (but really glad i sold the laser when i did)

Abuna
Okay, I am admitting ignorance here, but what is crankwalk?

I have never heard this term before.

I used to have a 1G GSX (stock), so I probably should know what this is.

sarge
95-96 are the worst eyars for crank walk...ill keep that babe you have there in my prayers...i've always ahd love for the dsm (but really glad i sold the laser when i did)


yeah the late 95's to late 96s were bad for crankwalk, i have an early early 95 so i'm hoping i never get it, and if i do i am gonna swap in a built 1g motor

sarge
Okay, I am admitting ignorance here, but what is crankwalk?

I have never heard this term before.

I used to have a 1G GSX (stock), so I probably should know what this is.



go here if you want to read about it

http://www.magnusmotorsports.com/crankwalktheory.htm

FabUlous
:?: i dont get it........so what is crankwalk??

k6kicker
lets just leave it as something very very bad that happens either somewhat in the mid point of the life of a stock motor (75,000) or under heavy boost, the likely cause would be clogged oil squiters from what i hear...it happens to all of the 4g63 varients, the safest are the 1st gens, and about half of the 95-96 ones have suffered from it

sarge
lets just leave it as something very very bad that happens either somewhat in the mid point of the life of a stock motor (75,000) or under heavy boost, the likely cause would be clogged oil squiters from what i hear...it happens to all of the 4g63 varients, the safest are the 1st gens, and about half of the 95-96 ones have suffered from it


it does not happen to the 1g variants, that motor is built slightly different and is not susceptible to crank walk, the best way to prevent crankwalk in a 2g is by swapping in a 1g motor

silverTA2002
For me it's as simple as this:

I just think the AWD one would be more fun to drive. I don't like the driving characteristics of high powered FWD cars as much.

But, I've only driven a Talon turbo fwd that was modded, and not an AWD one, so I'm just guessing. But, as much fun as it was when the boost kicked in, I really really didn't like that it just roasted the tires, tried to jerk the steering wheel out of your hand, ect.

And if you got an eclipse turbo, either one, you'd HAVE to at least mod it a little. They're so cheap to make quite a bit faster.

Oh yeah, plus the GSX is just plain cooler. :cheers: And if it's the same price, it's a better deal since it's worth more.

sarge
with high powered fwd cars everyone always complains about torque steer, but, as with any high powered car, its going to be harder and more demanding to drive than a normal car, and you just need to learn how to drive it, thats what separates an enthusiast from the everyday car owner/driver

The 18th Letter
2G GSX is really rare, so they are more expensive. My 1G Talon is AWD, it feels really stable in the rain, but haven't drive it in snow. Stock vs stock AWD is slower, but if you're planning to modify it, the slight weight difference wouldn't matter much, you get better traction and better launch with AWD. So if you can find a 2G GSX, go for it.