View Thread: Regular vs Synthetic


Sia Bani
Well, what do you guys use? Also, what brand do you swear by?

masestylez
I've heard you have to ease your engine into synthetic, or it can be pretty bad for it. This was a hot topic at C&D forever if I remember right.

911GT2
You should use dino oil for the breakin but change oil very early to synthetic to get rid of initial metal shavings.

scubie02
Well, I used regular for the first couple changes, but have been using Mobil 1 for the last few. Can't say I notice any difference, I just figure that for what my dealer charges for an oil change, I can use synthetic and a premium filter. Who knows if it really makea a difference. They claim it does. I figure w/ the cold here and the turbo heat of the rex it couldn't hurt probably...

FabUlous
whats the main diff between em both.......i dont really know..

911GT2
Synthetic generally protects better and breaks down less.

And you probably won't notice a difference until your engine starts gettin some miles on her.

masestylez
I thought slowly but surely non-synthetic would cause leaks but you wouldnt notice them because the oil would stick, and when you started to use syn it would break that crap away so you'd think it was the synthetic giving you leaks. Or something like that....

911GT2
Yeah, it can do that.

Syn is better IMO because it is still smooth under extreme temperatures.

raska
Originally posted by masestylez
I thought slowly but surely non-synthetic would cause leaks but you wouldnt notice them because the oil would stick, and when you started to use syn it would break that crap away so you'd think it was the synthetic giving you leaks. Or something like that....

I think more to the point of that is synthetic doesn't swell the gaskets like regular oil.

masestylez
That's exactly what I was getting at, thanks man, thats been driving me crazy.

scubie02
Originally posted by raska
I think more to the point of that is synthetic doesn't swell the gaskets like regular oil.

Hmm, so that would actually be BAD then, right? But then howcome the corvette comes new w/ synthetic (Mobil 1) and the new EVO specifies synthetic?

raska
Originally posted by scubie02
Hmm, so that would actually be BAD then, right? But then howcome the corvette comes new w/ synthetic (Mobil 1) and the new EVO specifies synthetic?

It's only bad if your vehicle is old and needs the gaskets to swell to fit properly and prevent leakage and so on. Synthetic oil is obviously the better oil.

911GT2
Yeah, syn is better in every way. Lubricates just as well or better and works well under higher temperature ranges.

SkylineUSA
Mobil 1 is not a synthetic.

The synth are Royal Purple, Redline, and Amsoil.

raska
Originally posted by SkylineUSA
Mobil 1 is not a synthetic.

The synth are Royal Purple, Redline, and Amsoil.

No? Neither is Castrol GTX, neither is an other compound on this earth really.

It's like the whole digital vs analog argument. Which is better? Whatever does the job better.

SkylineUSA
Royal Purple, Redline, and Amsoil are better, because they are synths.

Michitakem
I live in a hot climate and use Royal Purple exclusively.

RSXDriver
I just started using synthetic for my own peace of mind. I mean, going 10k miles between oil changes, I may as well go with the higher-dollar stuff. It isn't going to cost me that much in the long run.

SkylineUSA
I just started using synthetic for my own peace of mind

What Synth are you using? You might want to change your oil filter every 3k at least, 10k on one oil filter is way too long.

RSXDriver
I'm using Valvoline, and going by the manual, I change the filter every 10k as well, but it says to change every 20k.

Under extreme conditions, it says to change the oil every 5k and the filter every 10k. I fall under normal conditions, putting about 2500 miles on my car every month. Used to be a lot more.

SkylineUSA
Valvoline, is not a synth.

Your going by your owners manual?

If your happy with what your owners manual says, thats cool.

RSXDriver
I'm happy.

What do you mean Valvoline isn't a synthetic? Valvoline makes both conventional and synthetic, and makes a blend.

RSXDriver
It's called SynPower.

SkylineUSA
Valvoline, Castrol, Mobil, etc. are not synthetics. They want you to believe they are.

These are synth.... Royal Purple, Redline, and Amsoil.

RSXDriver
Okay.

SkylineUSA
Oh, Megadeath:flame: Rocks:D

RSXDriver
Originally posted by SkylineUSA
Oh, Megadeath:flame: Rocks:D

Yes indeed! :fro:

*There's no 'a' in the "deth" part. ;)

Sia Bani
Alright, since you've started up the conversation of mobile1 etc not being true synthetics, you have to explain.

masestylez
I thought Mobil 1 only made Synth, they use them in a lot of INDY cars I believe or something like that.

SkylineUSA
Here is a little info......

Syntech is Casteroils crap product they threw on the market. They were the first to throw a synthetic oil lable on grade3 base polymer oil (highly refined base oil versus molecular engineered).

All the others, Quakerstate, Pensoil etc... copied and flooded the market with synthetic labled oil, that was little more than this grade3 base polymer or something or other.

Mobile 1 finally got tired of the price beating and competion so they sued that the name the other companies were using was false advertising. The dumb ass judge did not agree. SO, instead of simply exposing the base 3 polymer stuff of other products and touting the quality of mobile 1. They changed the mobile 1. SO its nolonger a molecular engineered oil its simply a highly refind product the same as the other rat bastard companies

You guys make your own decision, your more informed consumers now. I use Amsoil. Peace!

masestylez
Are Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Redline American products? It doesn't really matter, you just don't hear of them as much, which makes me think they aren't.

SkylineUSA
By the way, Change your oil filter a lot more that what your owners manual says. Your engine will last a lot longer.

RSXDriver
Amsoil, I believe, is.

RSXDriver
Well, I changed the oil filter with every oil change in the Grand Am, and that was every 6,000 to 7,500 miles. Never had a problem with that engine ever.

SkylineUSA
They are all American.

SkylineUSA
I give, you guys enjoy.

masestylez
I heard something nasty about Pennzoil, that it is all recycled bad or something? I forgot what it is.

Sia Bani
Skyline, thank you for the info. I am a more informed consumer now. ;)

scubie02
Well, what he says is not actually 100% correct. Mobil 1 is actually a synthetic BLEND, if I recall, meaning its not 100% synthetic, but a blend of synthetic and highly refined dino oil. The other "crap brands" or whatever they were called are blends of refined dino oil w/ no synthetic, as far as I recall. According to tests I have seen, the new Mobil 1 Triblend (the old Mobil 1 actually WAS 100% syn I think) is STILL better than the others, maybe not quite as good as amsoil, etc. But then there is a limit on what I am willing to spend per quart of oil, considering I have had nearly all of my engines go just fine using REGULAR ol oil. I have had every vehicle I have owned go considerably more than 100k miles if I kept them long enough, just by changing the oil every 3k miles with regular oil. The record was my mustang, which had 130k when my dad got laid off and started using it (I had bought an escort as a commutermobile) and he continued to drive (probably w/out changing the oil anywhere near as often as he should have) until it had about 260k miles on it.

So Mobil 1 is still a step up and IS a blended synthetic, its just not 100% synthetic.

RSXDriver
And my Grand Am went 156k miles on 6,000 to 7500 mile changes with regular oil.

SkylineUSA
Semantics, and the world we live in.

Regular oil is fine for you car, and yes you can change it out every 6k without a difference in wear to your engine. I was pointing out the difference in synth oils, that is all. The only thing synth will get you is a little more hp, or are you going to refute that Scoobie-doo as well.

RSXDriver
Would the HP increase be noticeable, though?

SkylineUSA
Depends on the engine.

Going to full Synth, engine, tranny, and rear....I have seen 12hp jump to the ground. I know it may not be noticeable, but if you combine that with some other slight mods it does add up.

scubie02
Originally posted by SkylineUSA
Semantics, and the world we live in.

Regular oil is fine for you car, and yes you can change it out every 6k without a difference in wear to your engine. I was pointing out the difference in synth oils, that is all. The only thing synth will get you is a little more hp, or are you going to refute that Scoobie-doo as well.

It was not my intention to "refute" what you were saying, only to point out that, strictly speaking, it wasn't 100% correct, since Mobil 1 is in fact a synthetic blend, unlike some of the other oils out there. No, its not 100% synthetic, like Amsoil and some others, but it DOES still have synthetic in it, blended with ultra refined dino oil.

I was also not saying that synthetic doesn't make ANY difference--if I didn't think it were possible that it was superior in some way, I wouldn't bother putting it in my vehicle. It theoretically flows better in extreme temperatures and resists breakdown better. It MAY extend engine life if it is used pretty much from the beginning (it is actually usually recommended from what I have seen to use regular oil for the first cycle or two, then switch, for whatever reason). I thus use it in my wrx, which as a high revving turbo car will generate more heat, etc (it also gets quite cold here--we've had almost a solid month now of 0 to below 0 temperatures--definitely below zero at night. High of 4 today). I don't bother using it in my truck.

It is also possible for synthetic to give a small hp boost, since better lubrication means everything turns more easily/less friction. However, I can't say that I know anyone who uses synthetic thinking they will get a hp boost, and whatever you might get I would think would not be noticeable. I didn't notice any difference in my wrx.

SkylineUSA
It was not my intention to "refute" what you were saying, only to point out that, strictly speaking, it wasn't 100% correct, since Mobil 1 is in fact a synthetic blend, unlike some of the other oils out there. No, its not 100% synthetic, like Amsoil and some others, but it DOES still have synthetic in it, blended with ultra refined dino oil.

I was also not saying that synthetic doesn't make ANY difference--if I didn't think it were possible that it was superior in some way, I wouldn't bother putting it in my vehicle. It theoretically flows better in extreme temperatures and resists breakdown better. It MAY extend engine life if it is used pretty much from the beginning (it is actually usually recommended from what I have seen to use regular oil for the first cycle or two, then switch, for whatever reason). I thus use it in my wrx, which as a high revving turbo car will generate more heat, etc (it also gets quite cold here--we've had almost a solid month now of 0 to below 0 temperatures--definitely below zero at night. High of 4 today). I don't bother using it in my truck.

It is also possible for synthetic to give a small hp boost, since better lubrication means everything turns more easily/less friction. However, I can't say that I know anyone who uses synthetic thinking they will get a hp boost, and whatever you might get I would think would not be noticeable. I didn't notice any difference in my wrx.

Well said, Scubie02

Sia Bani
Originally posted by SkylineUSA
Well said, Scubie02

There we go...scubes ended the slight growth in hostility! :cheers:

Michitakem
Originally posted by masestylez
Are Royal Purple, Amsoil, and Redline American products? It doesn't really matter, you just don't hear of them as much, which makes me think they aren't.

I got some free stickers from Royal Purple from somewhere in Texas.

scubie02
Originally posted by SkylineUSA
Well said, Scubie02

Thanks! :D

Didn't want there to be any misunderstanding that I was picking on anyone. Hey, I could be wrong, thats just my understanding of the syn vs regular debate.

masestylez
My dad used to sell Lucas Oil, it was kind of a weird bullshit thing they pushed on him.

89TTA
alright... let me explain some stuff real quick...

both synthetic AND mineral oil are inherently the same. both are petrolium based and use the same base oil and solution. they just massage and refine the synthetic oil more before they bundle it up and ship it out. mineral oil should be used for the first 500 miles on ANY motor... despite the fact that synthetic oil is more slippery then mineral. those 500 miles are break in miles and REQUIRE mineral oil to make sure everything seats right.

however... if synthetic oil is so good, then why are all the major horsepower v8 drag racing teams only use mineral oil?

;) if they ask that, just tell this "because, they repair/rebuild the motors after ever quarter mile, and those motors never get out of the 500 mile break-in." i've lived next to oil plants all of my life, and been in this conversation a lot...

SkylineUSA
Drag cars and street cars are apples and oranges.

mineral oil, what do mean by that? Regular oil? That is a term I have not heard.

89TTA
yea, if you would have read the rest of the post after that question, you'd understand that i understand that... essentially, however, they are not. my uncle made a 1000 rwhp 488 cid Nova for the strip... but won't put synthetic in it. the whole idea of synthetic is meant for long runs (i.e. road course racing) then just a quarter mile. however, in a street car, the added benefit of the synthetic oil is little to none unless you replace ALL oil requiring components with synthetic.

mineral oil is the term used in chemical plants and oil refineries for the "normal" weighted oil that you buy in car stores.

brindlepit
I work for the largest perto-chemical Engineering firm and coming down from the brains in the company - they said Walmart is equal if not better than most brands you buy from your speed shop.

Interesting No? Even if it's $0.99 a quart.

SkylineUSA
As long as it is SAE it should be good to go.

yea, if you would have read the rest of the post after that question, you'd understand that i understand that
I was just reiterating:)



however, in a street car, the added benefit of the synthetic oil is little to none unless you replace ALL oil requiring components with synthetic.
Very well said, I totally agree with you on that one.

My 400hp stang has all synth, and so does my GTR.

montecarlolsus
I use Mobile 1 Synthetic in the 2000 Montecarlo and regular Quaker state 10w30 in the 1981 Bonneville.

silverTA2002
I use Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30.

I change it about every 4000 miles.

raska
Originally posted by brindlepit
I work for the largest perto-chemical Engineering firm and coming down from the brains in the company - they said Walmart is equal if not better than most brands you buy from your speed shop.

Interesting No? Even if it's $0.99 a quart.

My grandad said pretty much the same thing and he worked for Esso/Exxon Mobil as a chemical engineer for 33 years.

All these myths about one gas being better at such and such a station compared to the other and so on are pretty much myths. There are other factors to deal with at ta gas station of course.

scubie02
Originally posted by georgesltd56
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Geez SLP, could you stop posting this kind of stuff, its a bit over the top...

:tongue:

Rumrunner
Okay, here goes:

Synthetic oil is different from petroleum based in that it is fully manufactured making each molecule identical. Then it is heavily fortified with additives to clean the engine. Petroleum based is the 'dino' oil which comes from the ground and no amount of refining will remove all the impurities. Incidentally, it is mostly these impurities that are broken down by engine heat and make the oil look dirty. Because synthetic has none of these impurities, it lasts longer.

The concept of synthetic oil was first developed by Germany during WWII when their tanks were stalled at the eastern front because the oil in their tanks had solidified from the extreme cold. They needed something that would remain fluid at very low temperatures. With the onset of jet engines, there was a need for an oil that could withstand high heat and synthetic was the answer for both extremes.

It is said that it also has a higher film strength. That is the pressure required to force the oil out from between two surfaces. Petro-based is roughly 800 psi and synthetic is around 3200.

It is especially beneficial for turbocharged engines because of the heat generated by the turbo. It will not break down as easily so, in most cases, it extends the life expectancy of the bearings.

The turbo in my 1987 Shelby Charger was still marginally effective after 156,000 miles. This is quite good for a component that normally lasted only 60-80,000. When I switched to synthetic, there was a noticeable difference in power, especially torque, and a thirteen percent increase in gas mileage.

The best of the synthetics is likely Amsoil since they continuously work to improve their product. They also make filters that will remove impurities as small as five microns. If Mobil 1 which I use is indeed a blend now (and I definitely will find out) Amsoil will be my brand henceforth. With all I have read about it and from my own experience, synthetic is the only way to go.

masestylez
The topic that can't die.